WALL•E Soundtrack

Pixar's Feature Films WALL•E
#41

miafka, I respect you but you making horrible comparisons. Do you know anyone who watches movies as much as they listen to music on their iPod? Posting an entire movie online is different than posting songs online to listen to. Once you see a movie, a lot of people either never watch it again or watch it on occasion. When someone listens to music, if they really like it, they might listen to it every week or every day even.

With movies you have the choice to see them in a theater or rent them, you never have to buy them. With music, its buy them or nothing. You don’t have the choice of renting music, to know if you like it, and if the selection is never played on the radio, how do you know you like it. I don’t just go around buying every soundtrack I think I like but what I’ve heard and know I want to have around to listen to at my pleasure.

miafka, I’m not a pirate and I’m one of the few people who actually buys music off iTunes instead of stealing it on the net. I’m just saying I WILL NOT BUY something I don’t know if I like. Without radio playing this kind of movie music, its a little hard to find that out without the help of sites offering to listen too on flash player (NOT DOWNLOAD). What the difference between this and internet radio? I don’t see any as neither has permission from the artists. Are people listening to internet radio pirates because they’re not paying to listen just like people who listen to the flash music players.

As far as I’m concerned, if someone just listens to the music once and doesn’t buy it, you didn’t loose any money because they didn’t like the song. If someone listens to it and then illegally downloads it, then you have the right to be mad, because that was a potential customer that liked the song.

Trust me, I don’t believe in pirating but I just don’t feel listening to the music online (when you have no other way of knowing you like it because the radio doesn’t play it) is not unexceptable, but if you have that music on a CD, MP3 player or on your computer (where you can listen to it a your connivence) you better have paid for it. I really don’t think posting movies and music is the same thing when movies have more options (see it in theaters, rent it, PPV, VOD, local television networks, etc.) while music can only be bought if not played on the radio.

I’m sure my opinion is not appreciated though. I just feel the music industry would get more of my business if they let me know what they were offering me. I hold out on buying thousands of songs a year because they aren’t played on the radio and I don’t want to pay for something (crowding my hard drive space) that I’ll never listen to again.

I just want you to know that I don’t endorse pirating but I do think there is an advantage to posting flash versions of music, tv show and movies online (music more than anything) or Disney wouldn’t have posted Finding Nemo online for free and Comedy Central wouldn’t offer every South Park episode online for free (all officially).

I mean, would a pirate pay $125 for the “A Musical History of Disneyland” boxed set of CDs? I never would have bought that if Subsonic Radio and Disney Tunes Radio Network hadn’t played those songs before, letting me know how good they were, and by that getting Disney my money.

#42

I’m totally with Skippy on this.

I’m pretty sure that I’m not going to buy the OST for WALL-E. Don’t get me started on DRM (and various other things like that). I don’t buy a pig in a poke. Either they would allow to listen to the soundtrack online (completely) or I’m not going to buy it. It’s that simple… (or would you buy a car without a trial run…maybe even over the weekend, which is common in Germany?).

It’s the own fault of the Music Industry. They couldn’t adapt to new distribution methods, they’re just trying to make life harder for everyone who enjoys music, raise prices etc. I won’t support that methods/attitude. No wonder music sales keep falling and falling.

Again: I don’t buy music/products I couldn’t try out. I only buy music which I have listened to over radio for example. I wouldn’t have bought many tracks if I hadn’t the chance to listen to them beforehand on www.imeem.com

Example: lastfm.de/music/Thomas+Newma … can+Beauty

(That iPod comparison is nonsense. You can test an iPod in the shop where you’re willing to buy it. You don’t have to steal it.)

#43

Either back on topic guys and gals, or I’ll split the thread to make this a new topic.

#44

OK, back to topic:

When do you think they will release previews for the soundtrack? This week or next week? I’m really looking forward to hear a new soundtrack by Thomas Newman

#45

Okay, okay. It’s obvious WALL-E is a highly anticipated soundtrack that fans wish they could fully, er… comprehend before buying. I hope they release it in a jewel case instead of those cheap-o “eco friendly” paper boxes (although that might support the theme of the movie).

~Sarah

P.S. cough Go Skippy.

#46

Skippy, Tannenshnaps, with all due respect, what I read in your posts are simply arguements to rationalize something that is both morally and legally wrong.

Let’s clear the air. What is the definiton of “stealing”?
Type “steal” and “defintion” into google and you get: “Take without the owner’s consent.”

Well, that’s exactly what’s going on here. There’s no denying it. If someone uploads a song to rapidshare and 12,000 people (or even just 1) download it, they are: taking it without the owner’s consent. And that’s stealing. You can try to justify it (it’s fine because it’s “XXX’s” fault, or it’s fine because it’s “XXX”), but a 5yr-old (before he gets his first ipod at any rate) would tell you that it’s stealing.

“Posting an entire movie online is different than posting songs online to listen to.” No, it’s the exact same thing. If you’re posting the ENTIRE PRODUCT online, it’s no different. Doesn’t matter if it’s 5mins or 90mins. You’re posting the ENTIRE product online for people to then be able to consume without paying for it. Things like its length and how often it’s consumed are nothing but personal opinions and excuses. Heck, I can even think up a better excuse. How about: “Kids watch Pixar movies many more times than adults do, and since kids don’t have money, I’m going to put Ratatouille up online for anyone in the world who wants to get it without paying for it.”
Doesn’t matter if it’s a yellow shirt or a blue jacket, it’s still stealing.

“It’s the own fault of the Music Industry. They couldn’t adapt to new distribution methods.”
So because the maker of a product doesn’t do what you PERSONALLY feel they should, it becomes OK to steal that product? What you’re literally saying (outside of music) is: if you don’t like the features, restrictions and prices Toyota puts on their automobiles, it’s then OK for you to go and steal a Toyota for yourself and not have to pay, hm?

With regard to not being able to see/hear/try out something before buying it, that’s a valid point, but it’s that way with most things in life, and it does not give someone the excuse to steal something. Are you able to pay for a live concert only after it’s finished, and only if you’ve decided you liked it? When you place an order at McDonalds, do they allow you to first eat the food, and then decide if it’s worth purchashing after you’ve eaten it?

Content (music, movies, writings, concerts, etc) are NOT tangible items like a telephone or a stereo. Once you’ve experienced it, you’ve consumed it. That’s why, to help make it more fair for people, companies release clips and trailers and excerpts to give people an idea what to expect (and by the way, MOVIE trailers usually DO cherry-pick the best parts to show. Audio clips, like those on Amazon, are not “cherry-picked” best parts, but usually just the first 30 seconds of a track or similar. It’s a much more honest thing).

>>I just want you to know that I don’t endorse pirating but I do think there is an advantage to posting flash versions of music, tv show and movies online (music more than anything) or Disney wouldn’t have posted Finding Nemo online for free and Comedy Central wouldn’t offer every South Park episode online for free (all officially).

I totally agree. But the difference is (as you pointed out) that in the cases you mention above, it’s the creators who have made the decision to do so, not Joe Blow in Nepal who has decided on his own to distribute someone else’s hard work for others to steal without compensation.

I wonder if Andrew Stanton or Brad Bird had the time to hang out and participate on these forums, if people would openly be arguing that it’s OK to upload Ratatouille or Wall-E because (Reason XX, Reason YY). I’m willing to bet you I could come up with some pretty good rationales for stealing any product made in this world. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s still stealing. As I said about three times already, if you want to be able to get something without paying for it enough, to where you can convince yourself that stealing it is actually not stealing because (insert your rationale here), then nothing I say will change your mind. It’s not up to me to dictate morals to anyone. But (and this isn’t directed at anyone, but rather people on the net in general), please don’t steal and then try to say it’s not stealing. Whether you want to or not is up to you. But it is what it is.

Edit: I just saw the post saying we need to get off this topic. Agreed. But this was in response to an incident that occured (and thank you once again for removing the link) and felt this needed to be answered before moving on.

RE: track samples…
I looked on another site that says they specialize in audio clips of soundtracks for sale, but they don’t have any clips up for Wall-E yet either (they probably just get them from Amazon anyway). I honestly don’t even know if the CD is in anyone’s hands yet or not, or still being shipped to the warehouses. Personally I usually don’t listen to a movie soundtrack CD until after I’ve seen the movie. Two reasons for this. One is that hearing the music beforehand is a spoiler (and I generally try to avoid spoilers instead of reading them). Next, it’s the job of the score to support the movie, and to me the score and visuals are always intertwined. If you think of your favorite soundtrack right now, you can probably imagine the action going on on-screen while you listen to the various tracks. You miss that when you listen to the music first before seeing the movie (and I feel you never quite get it back afterwards). If it’s a soundtrack I’ve worked on I can’t avoid it, but if not I personally try to see the movie first. I broke this rule once for a movie and score I really wound up liking, but in the end, my memories of the first time hearing the score wasn’t experiencing and enjoying the movie in a threatre, but sitting in rush-hour traffic. And I can’t get that out of my head even to this day…
Just my thoughts.

Edited. I combined both of your posts. – Mitch

#47

Well, with flash it never enters anyone’s hard drive so technically, no one is stealing (or taking). They are only listening, no one actually possess the content as its only online. Once your internet is turned off, you don’t have it so no one technically stole anything (according to the definition). Listening isn’t stealing or every time I visit a My Space page with music on a flash player up (millions of people do this without artist permission), or I turn on the radio or listen to a friends iPod or watch a fan made music video on YouTube (all content I haven’t paid for), I would be arrested.

Illegally downloading it is stealing. The proof is the content you would have stored on your computer. I don’t think anyone at Pixar would have any problem with this site because no one here is plotting any kind of piracy of their content (well, at least I’m not). What really gets me is how the illegal act is downloading it, but putting it up is legal, right?

Anyways, miafka, do you know who profits from movie soundtracks? Since Disney already paid Thomas Newman to make the music for the film, do they and him jointly own the music rights or just Disney? Who gets the money from soundtrack sales? Both of them? Just Newman in addition to what he was initially paid to make it? Does this vary on every movie depending on contracts?

bawpcwpn, sorry for being off-topic. It kinda related to the WALL-E soundtrack :unamused:
Back on topic:

Wish I could buy this soundtrack but I’m a little tight on money right now. DOn’t some Blu-ray releases have audio options where you can just listen to the music or just the dialogue or the standard both? I thought I saw that feature listed on one of them. Would help justify the large Blu-ray price tag if you go soundtracks included (still waiting for the digital download revolution all by myself).

Also, are the songs in this soundtrack/movie re-recored or the original recordings (i.e. Put on your Sunday Cloths, etc)? I’m guessing re-recordings like “Kung Fu Fighting” with Jack Black on Kung Fu Panda.

#48

“Who gets the money from soundtrack sales?”
It’s pretty complicated and depends on the contracts. For composers, I don’t know all the details, though I believe at least some get paid depending on units sold. I know that for the rest of us studio musicians, what’s happening a lot now is the studio pays us less than what it used to be (instead of a raise, a decrease – as costs of everything are going up!) expecting less units to be sold now due to piracy) – and will only make up the difference if enough units are eventually sold. So yes, piracy does have a direct affect not just on the “rich studios” but on those of us musicians whose work you hear and who have to pay the bills every month. In the end though, where the money goes doesn’t matter. Stealing is still stealing. Whether the other person is rich or poor doesn’t suddenly make it not stealing.

Isolated soundtrack on bluray releases: it depends on the movie. I can’t tell you with much accuracy, because I can’t afford to get into blu-ray either! I know a rare few normal (non-bluray) movies also have this feature, though – one of them being the normal DVD release of “Pee Wee’s Big Adventure.” On that disc, at anytime in the movie, you can hit your remote and hear only the isolated music soundtrack. Unfortunately, Disney and Pixar have been trying to push BluRay at the expense of the normal DVD release (just single disc releases as opposed to 2-disc sets as used to be the norm). I have no idea what the Wall-E release will be like. I will say though, that cameras came in one day to videotape a bit of the scoring sessions to perhaps put on the DVD. Hopefully at least a few seconds will make it to the normal DVD release, because if it’s only on Bluray, I won’t be able to see it either.

“Also, are the songs in this soundtrack/movie re-recored or the original recordings?”
That I don’t know, sorry.

#49

I hate to break up the conversation, but on Amazon.com, you can now legally preview the WALL-E Soundtrack!

Since each download and preview is hosted on its own page, I cannot provide every single link on here, but search “Wall-E soundtrack” on Amazon.com and preview each track. A couple tracks are available for download for 99 cents.

EDIT: Here’s a link of the entire soundtrack and the previews, without the space (Excuse me for not knowing how to make a hyperlilnk on here): amazon.com/gp/product/B001B0C48E/ref=sr_1_
album_1?ie=UTF8&child=B001B0A2J2&qid=1213333082&sr=1-1

The soundtrack will be officially released on June 24th in stores and on iTunes.

Thank you for reading this

#50

…must…resist…titles…could be spoily… must not go to Amazon…

#51

Thanks, TheIncredible! I would never have seen that (I usually just look at the CD page rather than the mp3 download page, and they still don’t have the previews on the CD page yet – but they do on the download page).

For anyone who’s interested, here’s the page where it lists the tracks you can preview (NOTE: the track names are listed and can be considered spoilers. Don’t look if you don’t want to know the track names):
amazon.com/s/ref=sr_f2_all?i … usic-track

By the way, back when I was writing about the Wall-E scoring in the Composer Speculation area, I mentioned a cue that had a name that I thought would be perfect for a Disneyland ride, but didn’t post it at the time because it could be considered a spoiler. Now that it’s up on Amazon, here’s what it was:
[spoil]Wall-E’s Pod Adventure[/spoil]
Can’t you just see that as the name of a Disneyland ride 5 years from now?

#52

Somewhat a random thought, but am I the only one who notices extra effort put into the song titles in Michael Giacchino scores. The song titles on the Randy Newman soundtracks are usually just whatever is happening on screen. Giacchino puts in puns and twists them to fit the movie. Some examples on the Ratatouille soundtracks, ‘Granny Get Your Gun’, ‘Remy Drives a Linguini’, ‘Heist To See You’, ‘End Creditouilles’. There’s also ‘The Incredits’ on the Incredibles soundtrack.

It’s just a little something but I enjoy it :smiley:

#53

Well, Wall-E was composed by Thomas Newman not Michael Giacchino. But you are indeed correct in that both Michael Giacchino and Tim Simonec (Michael’s orchestrator) have a great sense of humor (Tim has told some really funny jokes up there on the podium).

As just an FYI, giving each cue a name isn’t important to the scoring process or musicians really. Each cue has a number (3M2, 4M6, etc) and they’re always referred to by their number. Some composers will also give the cue a name (“Granny Get your Gun”, etc) but the conductor won’t say "Get out Granny Get Your Gun, he’ll say “Get out 3M2” (or whatever the cue’s number is). Not all composers name their cues initially (some do) or print the names on the music… but when it comes time to put some cues on a soundtrack CD it’s much more interesting (and makes more sense) to see descriptive titles like “Indy and Panda Join Forces” than just seeing “3M1, 3M3, 4M2” etc. However as you pointed out, Michael and Tim can get very funny with the puns in their titles…

#54

LOL, [spoil]the “BNL” jingle (track 14)…[/spoil] (minor spoiler)

#55

I think I know the scene for [spoil]“Horizon 12.2”[/spoil] (look at pages 155-157 in “The Art Of WALL-E”).Hmmm…so beautiful/hearthwarming…

@miafka

Sorry to get offtopic again but…come on…do you really believe that studios are forced to pay you less because of increasing piracy? This is a lie, which is just another proof that the entire music industry is run by morons.

#56

OK, having seen Hello Dolly (don’t laugh at me) I can say that this is not a re-recording but just the clip form the movie. Nice to hear the previews though.

miafka, I can believe that piracy affects your pay because their is no real money in CDs anymore so they really rely on what little money they can milk out of them. The real money is in touring (cough one million dollars a week Miley Cyrus cough) that is really not an option for tradition scores and such like these.

Sorry you getting the poop end of the stick (the Disney version of that saying) :frowning:

#57

Sigh, I’m going to reply to this topic one last time then move on back to Wall-E. I promise.

This is a reply to Skippy and Tannenschnaps, but if others aren’t afraid to ask themselves a few hard questions, please consider what I have to say (I don’t mean for these questions to be answered; it’s just something to think about).

[b]>>come on…do you really believe that studios are forced to pay you less because of increasing piracy? This is a lie, which is just another proof that the entire music industry is run by morons.

miafka, I can believe that piracy affects your pay because their is no real money in CDs anymore. The real money is in touring.[/b]

EDIT: Skippy, at first I thought you said “I can’t believe that piracy affects your pay” (not can), so I got a little mad. Sorry, my bad. :confused: Still, I think the points below are still worth pointing out.

(1) Are you someone who would walk into a local mall store, see a CD on the shelf, then go ahead and shoplift it by hiding it in your bag and walking out the door with it? There is absolutely no difference between doing that and downloading the CD illegally online, except that doing so online is anonymous. You know it, and I know it. I’m not here to tell you not to do it, but please don’t insult my intelligence (and yours) by trying to think of justifications to say it’s not the same thing. I have yet to hear someone explain any ethical difference between shoplifting a CD from a store and downloading it illegally online.

(2) Thus the old ethics question: What if you were walking past a store on the way home late one night and you notice that the door to the shop was left open. No one is around and there are no cameras or alarms. Are you someone who would walk into the shop and take something knowing you won’t get caught, or someone who would just keep walking past.

(3) I am absolutely not trying to dictate morals to anyone (honest. I hate people like that). I’m simply making the point that there’s no ethical or moral difference between stealing something online or walking into a store to steal it – yet if challenged, people will spend hours thinking up all kinds of arguements to justify it if it’s music (“it’s the music industry’s fault”, “they’re rich enough” “it doesn’t really hurt anyone”) because deep down most people know that it is wrong and don’t want to have to admit to themselves that they’re doing something wrong. Otherwise most people would simply say “Yeah, that’s right, I’m stealing, so what?” Instead, like a politician they hem and haw and try to think of any justificaiton they can to make them not feel guilty about doing it, instead of being able to just call a spade a spade. No justification (even the best of intentions, like wanting to share things with others) changes the fact that it still is what it is. Would you walk into a store and steal a new candy bar to share with a friend because you know your friend would really love it?

(4) Finally, people will justify an action they know deep down is wrong by pretending they “know” the situation (how they want it to be), ignoring those who are actually right in the middle of it in real life.
>>come on…do you really believe that studios are forced to pay you less because of increasing piracy? This is a lie
No, that is you trying to justify to yourself and others a reason for doing what your own moral compass must say is wrong – otherwise you’d just say “Hey, with me stealing is fine.” If you want to do it, fine, I’m not going to stop you or tell you not to. But please don’t pretend you know more about situations than the people actually involved with them in order to make yourself feel better. Piracy does affect me and my fellow musicians, and we see it firsthand. It also affects the record companies that people love to hate in order to create justifications to steal from them and not feel guilty about it. I’ve seen record companies like Capitol/EMI sell their buildings (including the iconic Capitol Records building in Hollywood), and fire huge numbers of people… but hey, if Tannenschnaps says it’s all a lie, then our smaller paychecks, the gutting of employees at record companies, and the selling off of their assets as music sales nosedive (and it’s not as if people aren’t still listening to music) must not be true, right? (And after this arguement would come the “well it’s the record companies’ own fault” arguement – one after another, round and round in circles so that someone doesn’t have to face the fact that a spade is a spade). Why can’t people just admit that it is what it is.

(5) Just imagine a world where: for some strange reason, it was socially acceptable in the world for people to simply take the things you make for a living without having to pay for it, in whatever field you decide to go into.

Once again, I’m not trying to dictate morals or change anyone’s ways. Whether you choose to download online or not is totally up to you. As you well know, it’s easy to do and you probably won’t get caught. But I simply challenge anyone reading this to think about the points I make above – written by someone who actually is right in the middle of this.

Sorry, folks. I know this got off topic again (I tried to move it back before), but when I saw posts basically saying what’s happening to me and my fellow musicians are simply lies, as someone who knows what’s going on firsthand from the inside I felt I had to respond one last time. However at this point I think everything’s pretty much been said. I’m moving back to the topic of the Wall-E soundtrack, and hope others will too (though I do hope people will at least think about what I’ve written).

So to bring things back to Wall-E, I will mention something humorous: as posted earlier, the samples for the Wall-E soundtrack clips are now online at Amazon (in the mp3 section, not the CD album section yet)… the clips give you about 20 seconds of listening time – but a couple of the tracks are only 15 and 20 seconds long – so you hear the whole things on those two :slight_smile:

#58

Sorry, miafka, but I don’t want to argue with you on that. I have my opinion about the music industry and I won’t move one step away from it. For example: They increase the prices for CDs because less CDs are sold. Now higher prices increase sales, don’t they? They’re fighting the effects (piracy, decreasing profits, increasing sales over e.g. iTunes, etc.) but they’re not trying to solve the problem itself. I’m done with them and I try to buy only “independent music”.

btw: why are you saying we’re going to download it? We (Skippy and me) never said that so could you please stop it? My morale compass is fine (compared with the ones of the CEOs of the music industry), thanks.

Back to the OST:

I wonder if I may be right about the scene for “[spoil]Horizon 12.2[/spoil]”. Anyway, I like pretty much every track so far ([spoil]Eve Retrieve, The Axiom, Define Dancing[/spoil], etc.). Good job on that! :slight_smile:

#59

Back to the OST
Anyway, I like pretty much every track so far

Without giving too much away, one of the ones you mentioned (“[spoil]Define Dancing[/spoil]”) is from what I thought was one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. Another (“[spoil]First Date[/spoil]”) is from a very funny scene, and you can hear that the music for it is quite different than the other tracks…

#60

Just gotta say, yes stealing music is wrong, be it online or in store, but claiming there is absolutely no difference between the two is not accurate. Physical theft means an actual product is stolen. The store loses an item and must eat the cost. Illegal downloading does not remove a physical CD and does not directly take money from the studios or stores, though it does take away a possible sale. (emphasis on possible. Not every download means a lost sale)

And [bTannenschnaps][/b], If anything, the studios are/should be praising sales at iTunes. Don’t think they are fighting them in any way. I’m not sure how you think the studios aren’t solving the problem because iTunes was the beginning of a solution. With the increasing number of DRMless and subscription services, the only plausible reason someone would/could pirate music would be rare or out or print albums.